Friday, March 18, 2016

Was Jesus in the Garden of Eden?


There seems to be confusion as to who the God of the OT is. Many I fear would claim that Yahweh who interacted with men throughout history was God the Father and then all of sudden Jesus God the Son pops up 2000 years ago, as a slightly inferior godlike figure. I see this as I interact with unbelievers and those who come from liberal church theology. The God of the OT is portrayed as harsh and brutal, while Jesus is this seen as only concerned with everybody loving and being nice to each other. The most widely used verse among the liberal crowd is “Do not judge”. Jesus from their perspective was a non-judgmental, sweep your sins under the rug kind of guy. This just goes along with the postmodern philosophy of moral relativism and the concept that nothing can be known for sure, therefore there can be no absolute right and wrong nor any primitive notions of “sin”. It is very convenient to have a post-modern Oprah Winfrey Christ. A slightly effeminate, emotional, Hollywood version of Christ is appealing to the present day worship of rock star personalities. Unfortunate, because this is not the Jesus of the bible and it shows a shallow and incomplete understanding of the Godhead.

In reality this is a heretical view of Christ and violates scriptural truth. I’m not going to cite all the verses which clearly state that Jesus is Yahweh, I AM, Angel of the LORD, the commander of the army of the LORD. 
Only a very selective cafeteria, “head in the sand”, Pollyanna form of apostate religious smoke and mirrors can teach this nonsense.  Am I overstating the situation? I think not. If Pelagius can be branded heretic for teaching against original sin and the depravity of man, I would submit this distortion of the 2nd person of the Trinity and Christian theology is far worse.
Misunderstanding the nature and function of the Trinity leads to watered down theology and is source of most cultism.
Within the one Being that is God, there exists eternally three coequal and coeternal, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit…………..Difference in function does not indicate inferiority of nature. The Forgotten Trinity, James R. White pages 26,66,
Unless one understands and completely believes that the God of the OT is the exact same God of the NT, you will not and indeed  cannot understand the progressive revelation of the truth of scripture.
Hebrews 13:8-9 (ESV) 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Jesus is the person of the Trinity which has always been the representative of God in interaction with mankind, both in OT as well as NT.
“It was only with the coming of Christ that a profound truth like this could finally be made clear and that God’s character and the extent of His love could fully be revealed. The key point to realize is that although progressive revelation means that the exact meaning of God’s love and truth become increasingly clear and, most importantly, the cross of Christ reveals how these two qualities which appear so often to be in tension can actually be held together (how a holy God can make sinners right with Himself without acting unjustly by leaving sin unpunished), the Old and New Testaments consistently bear witness both to God’s love and truth (or holiness). To suggest that God’s love is unknown in the Old Testament would be completely false. In fact, God’s love to Israel is a major theme of the Old Testament and His judgment of their enemies can even be seen as an expression of this love. Likewise, it would be equally wrong to suggest that the God of the New Testament is not capable of righteous judgment. The Old Testament presents God as the One who is both just and loving (see Exodus 34:6, Psalm 85:10 and Psalm 86:15 for example), and this perfect balance is also seen in the character of God as revealed in Christ (John 1:14). Even in the accounts of mass killings in the Old Testament we see both the justice and grace of God as His judgment falls on the rebellious but those who have faith are saved. This same pattern is continued in the teaching of Jesus, who spoke both of salvation and of judgment (see the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 for example). Throughout the New Testament epistles this perfect unity of justice and love in the character of God is consistently seen, so that John could say in his first epistle that God is both light (meaning truth) and love (see 1 John 1:5 and 4:16). Neither Christ nor His apostles seemed to have any concerns about the veracity of the Old Testament accounts of these mass killings, showing that they firmly believed that the God of the Old Testament was the same God in whom they trusted. In fact the teaching of Jesus and the apostles makes no sense at all without the background of the Old Testament – we cannot understand the significance of Christ’s life, death and resurrection except “according to the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:3-4).” http://www.bethinking.org/bible-jesus/advanced/old-testament-mass-killings.htm

“This brings us to back to Genesis 3:8.
Genesis 3:8 (ESV) 8  And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
In my view (and not only in my view) it was our indeed Lord Jesus Christ who appeared to Adam and Eve in the garden, for He has always been the Father’s representative on earth, appearing for Him and as Him. To take but one example, in Isaiah 6,
Isaiah 6:1-3 (ESV) 
1  In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2  Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3  And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!”
John identifies Jesus as the person Isaiah saw sitting on His throne.
John 12:41-43 (NASB) 
41  These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him. 42  Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; 43  for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God. 
  God appears in every way as He does in His holy, heavenly temple (cf. Rev.4),
Revelation 4:2-8 (ESV) 

 2  At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne. 3 And he who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian, and around the throne was a rainbow that had the appearance of an emerald. 4  Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clothed in white garments, with golden crowns on their heads. 5  From the throne came flashes of lightning, and rumblings and peals of thunder, and before the throne were burning seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God, 6  and before the throne there was as it were a sea of glass, like crystal. 7  the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight. 8  And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”
 But we know from John that it was Jesus whom Isaiah really saw. This is also explained by Jesus’ words to the effect that anyone who has seen Him has in fact seen the Father – they are One in every purposeful way (Jn.10:30),
John 10:30 (ESV)  30  I and the Father are one.”and the Son is the true reflection of the Father 
Hebrews 1:3 (ESV)  3  He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.
No one has (in this present body) seen the Father in all His true glory(cf. 1Tim.6:14-16),
1 Timothy 6:14-16 (ESV)  14  to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15  which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16  who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
 But Jesus came that the world might see Him in Him and believe in Him through Him. And in the Old Testament, He appeared “in many ways and at many times”(Heb.1:1-2),
Hebrews 1:1-2 (ESV)  1  Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2  but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
 Always through Jesus, but not evidently and clearly through Him until Christ’s incarnation made it clear for us that such was ever the case (cf. Is.48:13-17 where “I am the Lord your God” who has been “sent” by “the Sovereign Lord” with “His Spirit”; cf. also Zech.1:7-17).”
Isaiah 48:13-17 (ESV) 
13  My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand forth together. 14  “Assemble, all of you, and listen! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; he shall perform his purpose on Babylon, and his arm shall be against the Chaldeans.15  I, even I, have spoken and called him; I have brought him, and he will prosper in his way. 16  Draw near to me, hear this: from the beginning I have not spoken in secret, from the time it came to be I have been there.” And now the Lord GOD has sent me, and his Spirit. 17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the LORD your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you in the way you should go.
Zechariah 1:7-17 (ESV) 7  On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, which is the month of Shebat, in the second year of Darius, the word of the LORD came to the prophet Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, son of Iddo, saying, 8  “I saw in the night, and behold, a man riding on a red horse! He was standing among the myrtle trees in the glen, and behind him were red, sorrel, and white horses. 9  Then I said, ‘What are these, my lord?’ The angel who talked with me said to me, ‘I will show you what they are.’ 10 So the man who was standing among the myrtle trees answered, ‘These are they whom the LORD has sent to patrol the earth.’ 11  And they answered the angel of the LORD who was standing among the myrtle trees, and said, ‘We have patrolled the earth, and behold, all the earth remains at rest.’ 12  Then the angel of the LORD said, ‘O LORD of hosts, how long will you have no mercy on Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, against which you have been angry these seventy years?’ 13  And the LORD answered gracious and comforting words to the angel who talked with me. 14  So the angel who talked with me said to me, ‘Cry out, Thus says the LORD of hosts: I am exceedingly jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion. 15  And I am exceedingly angry with the nations that are at ease; for while I was angry but a little, they furthered the disaster. 16  Therefore, thus says the LORD, I have returned to Jerusalem with mercy; my house shall be built in it, declares the LORD of hosts, and the measuring line shall be stretched out over Jerusalem. 17  Cry out again, Thus says the LORD of hosts: My cities shall again overflow with prosperity, and the LORD will again comfort Zion and again choose Jerusalem." http://ichthys.com/mail-Christophany%20in%20Genesis%203.htm
 Christ’s pre-existence is obvious from His Godhood. As God, He is Eternal and Immutable (Isa 9:6-7; Rev 1:8; Heb 13:8; Heb 1:12; Psa 102:27), so He always existed. There was never a time when He was not. “ . . .In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. “ (John 1:1) Christ’s pre-existence is amply testified by Scripture– John 8:58; 17:5; 17:24; Col. 1:17; Heb 7:3; Rev 22:13; Phil. 2:5-11–the Bible continually emphasizes it. We also see Him in the Old Testament, as His pre-existence is demonstrated by theophany, or Christophany . These two words, one applying to God generally speaking, and the other to the Son in particular, refer to a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament.
Since it is a Bible teaching that no one has seen, or can see the Father Himself, (Ex 33; John 1:18; 1 Tim 1:17), most evangelical teachers ascribe all visible appearances of God in human or angelic form to the Son manifesting Himself prior to His incarnation. Judges 13:15-22; Zechariah 3:1-5; Exodus 3:16; and Genesis 18:1-33, are among many passages that Bible scholars believe are Christophanies. How do we tell from the Scriptures if a particular angelic manifestation is merely an angel, or if it is an appearance of the pre-existent Son? The following passage is a classic one that illustrates this.


Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, “Are you for us or for our enemies?” “Neither,” he replied, “but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.” Then Joshua fell face down to the ground in reverence, and asked him, “What message does my Lord have for his servant?” The commander of the LORD’s army replied, “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so.Joshua 5:13-15 (NIV)
The underlined portion of the verse is the key to understanding this passage as an appearance of Christ before the Incarnation. The Commander of the LORD’s army uses the same words that Jehovah uses when Moses came before the burning bush. That, and the Person’s acceptance of worship, which is reserved for God alone, (Ex 20:1-3) prove this to be a Christophany. There are many Christophanies in the Old Testament. Christ has always been–our Savior did not come into existence on the day of His birth–He came into flesh on that day.
“Did Adam know Christ? Of course, who else was it that walked in the Garden and spoke to him? In saying that I am in no way trying to impose the NT onto the OT. John Owen, the great 17th century Puritan theologian, in his 10th introductory essay to his commentary on Hebrews, argues precisely this point from an examination of the Hebrew text of Genesis 3.” Blackham, opening contribution to debate, reproduced as ‘The Bible Speaks: Faith in Christ in the Old Testament’, Contact OnLine 7/6 (2003). He makes similar claims for Owen in his paper, ‘Christ the Object of Our Faith’.
Rebellion against God – for others, the struggle arises from a fundamental objection to the very idea that God can or should judge sinful people. According to Scripture, all sin must be judged and every person deserves death and eternal punishment. If we refuse to accept this truth then we are in grave danger, because we too are rejecting God and we will face His judgement. We must repent of our stubbornness and pride and call out to God for mercy. If we do, we will find it because of Christ.
So, then, the ultimate challenge of the Old Testament mass killings is to realise that God’s judgement on sin is a reality, and that we are now in a period where the opportunity to repent and be saved is open to us. God’s salvation has been made ready – Christ accomplished it on the cross and He rose again and is alive to save people. We would do well to heed the warning of the writer of Hebrews:
How shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? (Hebrews 2:3)
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/slaughter-of-the-canaanites
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